Choosing a MIDI channel to play the River from Logic or other DAW

[Mr Knoch]

I have read through the MIDI question from last August and wonder if it is similar to my question below. I am still on version 1.60 and will update soon if that helps.

My Friends, I have another simple request for help: I am about ready to begin making some River demos. After reading the manual I am still unclear on how to set a midi channel. For instance; I have a dance I would like to record from a musical play I have on my DAW using my River for each part.
Let's say I use harp on midi channel 1. I choose a sound on my river and have Logic send midi channel 1 to play my River. Then track 2 uses strings and I want to change to midi channel 2 on my River and use a string sound to play the track. And so on with track 3 being a lead sound, etc. Where and how do I do this? I hope it is probably quite easy but I have not discovered how. Thank you, Wes

[SugarFree]

Let me start by saying that The River has the most counterintuitive MIDI architecture I know of, and the English manual doesn't exactly help.

I have found 4 ways to connect to a DAW.

OPTION A:
- connect with one USB cable, from the USB PANEL output on the back of The River.
- set up one Riverkey layer
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: River
SYSTEM > Local Off: ON (to avoid double notes)
SYSTEM > Dump To USB: YES (to transmit knob movements)

PROs: setup with only 1 layer, transmits and receives knob movements
CONs: your DAW can only control The River, but not other synths connected to it (neither with MIDI nor CV)


OPTION B:
- connect with a pair of MIDI cables
- set up at least two Riverkey layers
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: MIDI
  L2    active: ON
         source: MIDI
         destination: River
  L3    active: ON (for CV synths)
         source: MIDI
         destination: CV destinations

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

PROs: your DAW can control other synths connected to The River (MIDI THROUGH or CV)
CONs: slightly more complex setup, can't transmit knob movements


OPTION C:
- connect with one USB cable, from the USB KEY output on the back of The River.
- set up at least two Riverkey layers
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: USB
  L2    active: ON
         source: USB
         destination: River
  L3    active: ON (for other MIDI synths)
         source: USB
         destination: MIDI
  L4    active: ON (for CV synths)
         source: USB
         destination: CV destinations

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

PROs: your DAW can control other synths connected to The River (MIDI OUT or CV)
CONs: more complex setup, can't transmit knob movements


OPTION D:
- a mix of OPTION A+B or A+C

PROs: transmits and receives knob movements, and your DAW can control other synths (MIDI THROUGH or MIDI OUT or CV)
CONs: very complex setup, with two sets of cables



Other considerations:
The word "channel" in the manual sometimes stands for "River Channel" or "MIDI Channel". Likewise, "USB" may mean "USB KEY" or "USB PANEL".
"Dump to USB" should not be confused with the SYSEX Dump commands (Current, All Single, All Multi, The River). It means "transmit the panel controls (knob movements) via the USB PANEL out", it's not a data dump.

[Johannes]

Thanks.

[Baloran]

Thanks 

[Mr Knoch]

Thank you, SugarFree. I will try these out and see which works best for me.

It still doesn't sound easy to do though.

Let me start by saying that The River has the most counterintuitive MIDI architecture I know of, and the English manual doesn't exactly help.

I have found 4 ways to connect to a DAW.

OPTION A:
- connect with one USB cable, from the USB PANEL output on the back of The River.
- set up one Riverkey layer
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: River
SYSTEM > Local Off: ON (to avoid double notes)
SYSTEM > Dump To USB: YES (to transmit knob movements)

PROs: setup with only 1 layer, transmits and receives knob movements
CONs: your DAW can only control The River, but not other synths connected to it (neither with MIDI nor CV)


OPTION B:
- connect with a pair of MIDI cables
- set up at least two Riverkey layers
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: MIDI
  L2    active: ON
         source: MIDI
         destination: River
  L3    active: ON (for CV synths)
         source: MIDI
         destination: CV destinations

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

PROs: your DAW can control other synths connected to The River (MIDI THROUGH or CV)
CONs: slightly more complex setup, can't transmit knob movements


OPTION C:
- connect with one USB cable, from the USB KEY output on the back of The River.
- set up at least two Riverkey layers
  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: USB
  L2    active: ON
         source: USB
         destination: River
  L3    active: ON (for other MIDI synths)
         source: USB
         destination: MIDI
  L4    active: ON (for CV synths)
         source: USB
         destination: CV destinations

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

PROs: your DAW can control other synths connected to The River (MIDI OUT or CV)
CONs: more complex setup, can't transmit knob movements


OPTION D:
- a mix of OPTION A+B or A+C

PROs: transmits and receives knob movements, and your DAW can control other synths (MIDI THROUGH or MIDI OUT or CV)
CONs: very complex setup, with two sets of cables



Other considerations:
The word "channel" in the manual sometimes stands for "River Channel" or "MIDI Channel". Likewise, "USB" may mean "USB KEY" or "USB PANEL".
"Dump to USB" should not be confused with the SYSEX Dump commands (Current, All Single, All Multi, The River). It means "transmit the panel controls (knob movements) via the USB PANEL out", it's not a data dump.

[KazRemark]

I'm finally getting around to getting my River fully integrated with my Cirklon sequencer.  So far I've just been playing it through the local keyboard and not sequencing it from the Cirklon. In terms of my setup I have River MIDI OUT --> Cirklon MIDI IN and Cirklon OUT --> River MIDI IN.  I've set up my Riverkey with option B:

  L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: MIDI
  L2    active: ON
         source: MIDI
         destination: River

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

With these settings, I am able to play the River from it's keyboard, record the MIDI output to the Cirklon and play MIDI from Cirklon into the River.  That's exactly how I want to run it most of the time.

But I am having a problem: when I save my multi in the river, the riverkey layers are not reliably saved.  If I select a multi that was saved with a different riverkey setting and then go back to the one with the correct setting the riverkey setting is wrong.

What am I doing wrong?  I thought that saving a multi will always save the riverkey setting as part of it?

[KazRemark]

Adding to my last post, I think I  probably need to download the profile manager and see if I can fix my problem that way.  Using the profile manager can I set up a profile with my desired riverkey setup:

L1    active: ON
         source: River
         destination: MIDI
  L2    active: ON
         source: MIDI
         destination: River

SYSTEM > Local Off: OFF

Is it possible to overwrite the factory profiles using the profile manager software?  If so I'd probably save my setup to slot 1.   Can this only be done using the PC software or is there a hidden way to overwrite the profiles on The River itself?

[KazRemark]

I was able to fix the issue where riverkey setups weren't being saved with my multi saves.  I reset the riverkey by power cycling the synth and holding down SHIFT in the river key.  Now all my multis are saving correctly.  Now all I need to figure out is whether I can save my own riverkey profile using the profile manager, and then I'll be good to go

[Mr Knoch]

I was able to fix the issue where riverkey setups weren't being saved with my multi saves.  I reset the riverkey by power cycling the synth and holding down SHIFT in the river key.  Now all my multis are saving correctly.  Now all I need to figure out is whether I can save my own riverkey profile using the profile manager, and then I'll be good to go

Will you let us know if you were successful with this?

[KazRemark]

Successful with which part?  I was able to get the correct riverkey settings set per Multi.  They load correctly 95% of the time, sometimes a multi will load without the correct setting but a reload will fix it. I haven't had a chance yet to look into the profile editor software if that's what you meant.

[KazRemark]

I’ve been running the setup I described above successfully, except that I can’t get the River to respond to my incoming MIDI clock (coming in via the MIDI ports).  I’ve been working around this by just manually setting the tempo and then fixing the slight timing offsets in the DAW later, but I would like to figure out how to just always slave the River to the MIDI clock coming from my Cirklon.  Anyone have this working?