Attemping to use the river in new ways

[KazRemark]

For a while now, I've been using the river exclusively with my Cirklon, connected by hardware MIDI ports.  I have completely avoided using the USB Midi with a DAW.  Generally, I have two layers set up in Riverkey:

Layer 1 - Source: RIVER Dest: MIDI
Layer 2 - Source: MIDI Dest: River

This allows me to sequence the river from the Cirklon which is generally what I want to do.

Today, I made a multi on the River that has three channels of river sounds on three layers:

Channel 1 with 6 Voices active:
Layer 1 - Source: River Dest: River

Channel 2 with 1 voice active:
Layer 2: Source: River Dest: River (Arp = ON)

Channel 3 with 1 voice active
Layer 3: Source: River Dest: River (Arp ON)

This multi sounds really nice when I play it on the keyboard, I have some chords in layer 1, with a bass arp and lead arp in layer 2 and 3.

My problem is that I cannot figure out how to capture my performance in the Cirklon...

I tried to add a fourth layer, with Source: River Dest: MIDI and that didn't work.  I tried the different MODES (All, Selected, MIDI) and that didn't help.  I'm a little confused what is wrong here?

I am going to plug the River into my DAW using USB and see if I have better luck, it looks like the DUMP USB function might be helpful here?

[KazRemark]

Simplifying my question, I would be curious to understand how to properly do two things:

1) Set up a layer that lets me play the river keyboard with an active arp, and send that MIDI out to the Cirklon to capture the arpeggiated notes

I would assume that I need to set up two layers:
Layer 1: Source: River | Dest: MIDI | Arp ON
Layer 2: Source MIDI | Dest: River
This should allow me to play my river, get arppegiated notes, send them to Cirklon, record them and then play them back from Cirklon into the River?

2) Set up a layer that lets me play the river keyboard with an active arp, and send that MIDI out to the Cirklon to capture the sustained chords, without the arpeggiated notes

I would assume that I need to set up two layers:
Layer 1: Source: River | Dest: MIDI |
Layer 2: Source MIDI | Dest: River | ARP ON
This should allow me to play my river, records the sustained chords without arppegiated notes inCirklon, play them back from Cirklon into the River where they are arpeggiated?

Unfortunately, neither of these methods is working for me so I'm afraid my assumptions are incorrect

Any help here understanding how to accomplish above using physical MIDI I/O (not USB) would be much appreciated.

[Moonwatcher]

I have no experience with the Cirklon, but having been using a Squarp Pyramid with the River, and I can replicate exactly what you're trying to achieve.

In my tests I let the River's arpeggiator run, then played simple chords while recording a sequence into the Pyramid (using its "Live" mode). The Pyramid recorded the arpeggiated notes, which could then be routed back to the River (or any other Midi device).

I then tried the reverse - sequencing some simple chords without arpeggiation, then routing back into a River Layer with the arpeggiator running. It worked like a charm.

I have the Pyramid set up to be the Midi hub of my studio. Using the Pyramid's Omni Multitrack mode, I have each synth set to its own Midi channel, connected via Midi merge and thru boxes. With a project properly set up on the Pyramid, this allows me to let the sequencer run while I add parts live to different tracks using the different Midi channels.

The River becomes a very powerful component in this setup. I use three of the River's four layers as separate synths on their own Midi channels. These channels receive Midi from the Pyramid. The fourth layer is my control layer, outputting Midi to the Pyramid, which then directs it to the various synths (including back to the River).

During live sequencing, I then keep the RiverKey set to display Layer 4's Midi Out, and use the keyboard as my controller. By switching Midi Out channels on the fly, I can switch between not only the different River layers, but any instrument in the Midi chain and play it from the River's keyboard.

Here are my typical RiverKey settings for this scenario:

Layer 1 - Source: MIDI  Dest: River  Chn In: 1
Layer 2 - Source: MIDI  Dest: River  Chn In: 2
Layer 3 - Source: MIDI  Dest: River  Chn In: 3
Layer 4 - Source: River  Dest: MIDI  Chn Out: XX (where XX is the channel you want to control)

Number of voices and program for each Layer assigned as needed. No need to set keyboard note ranges for each Layer in this setup.

To test your questions, I set up the RiverKey much as you described:

1)

Layer 1 - Source: MIDI Dest: River Chn In: 1 (ARP: OFF)
Layer 4 - Source: River Dest: Midi Chn Out: 1 (ARP: ON)

2)

Layer 1 - Source: MIDI Dest: River Chn In: 1 (ARP: ON)
Layer 4 - Source: River Dest: Midi Chn Out: 1 (ARP: OFF)

In both cases, the River performed as expected. Again I have no experience using the Cirklon, but it seems like it should be possible to do what you want. The River is sending out Midi note information for each step as its arpeggiator runs.

My apologies for the long response - I thought describing my setup might be helpful.

[maisonvague]

My apologies for the long response - I thought describing my setup might be helpful.

The longer the better!

I find it interesting how others are using The River.

I like this idea of using Layer 4 with a flexible MIDI channel.

I’m going to try that. Thanks!

[KazRemark]

Wow, thanks for the extensive reply moonwatcher!  I missed it this last year, logged into the Baloran forum today for the first time since you responded, and wow it has been EXACTLY one year to the day!  Now I am inspired to trouble shoot my problem some more and see if I can get it working.  Thanks for the extensive description of your workflow and for confirming that my assumed settings were correct.